newbie plugging observations

[AndyJ]

You experienced guys will probably be amused...

So, beginning with one of those silicone sound sets, 4 to 10mm, I could barely feel the 5mm sound, the 6mm sound went in easily, and the 7mm sound (actually 6.8mm) required starting with the 6mm for a while, then using a tapered dilator (actually, an old hypodermic cap, that goes from 5mm to 6.5mm), and still took a lot of work. The 8mm might have gone in with a croquet mallet, all I did was make the end of my wang miserably sore trying to force it in.

I cut the 6mm sound down to 100mm or so, re-shaped the cut end with a sander, and I can wear it around the house or when sleeping. Going out and walking around, the sound will work its way out. But it's very comfortable, other than the end getting snagged in my underwear and tugging sideways sometimes. I wore it for a few days just to get used to the sensation.

Then I ordered one of those multi-bump pee-through 6mm sounds and a 7mm "ball on a stick" version, since no 6.5 or 6.8mm ones seem to exist. I figured I'd sand the 7mm one down.

The 6mm sound went in easily enough, but it was extremely uncomfortable to wear, hurting all the way from the end inside the urethra to the external opening. Even touching it hurt. As it moved about it made the near end of the fossa navicularis sore, too. So I cut it off to two bumps, maybe 25mm long, and reshaped and smoothed the end. It didn't hurt down inside the shaft then, but the commotion at the opening was still there. Every time anything touched the part that stuck out, or put any pressure on the glans, it was "WHOA!"

Yesterday I realized that it didn't actually *hurt*, it was just that the sensation was so intense it might as well be pain. Time to man up. I left it in all night, and I'm getting used to it. Today, working with it in place, promises to be 'interesting.'

What is strange, though, is that I get none of that discomfort from the silicone sound, even though it might as well be steel by comparison to the meatal tissue. The large and small diameters are the same.

An annoying thing is that the 6mm silicone sound went in fairly easily the first few times, but now it takes a lot of work, and sometimes I give up trying to get the 6.8mm sound in. I figured there might be some swelling that would go down, but after three days there was no change. I didn't force things, so it's annoying that the stricture actually shrank. I have a tapered dilator on the way that might help.

I also found out that if the "stem" of the pee-through plug isn't large enough in diameter, urine can leak around the stem instead of going through the hole. Pulling it out as far as it will go before starting helps it seal.

And finally, the "pee through" thing... first time I tried to go, it took a while. The 3mm through-hole is a bottleneck, and the backed-up sensation was strange enough that the flow kept stopping, so took a while to empty my bladder in a series of squirts. After a few times I got the hang of it, and the back pressure helps keep the plug pushed forward to seal.

I ordered a handful of assorted hollow plugs, all of which I'll have to grind down to get them in. Once I can take a 7mm plug there's all kinds of stuff available off-the-shelf.

BTW, the medical papers I found online claim the average meatus will accept an 8 to 9mm dilator, depending on who was doing the measuring. The actual measurement procedure wasn't decribed, so I don't know if it was "that's enough, I don't want to do this any more" or "dilation ended when patient's screams exceeded 120dB."

[AndyJ]

Well, that didn't take long. The 6mm plug, which previously took some work to get out, fell out in the shower.

It came out after mowing the yard at end of the day. That's a lot of walking with a push mower, working the plug back and forth. By then I was able to ignore the sensation of it moving around, so "man up and get used to it" worked far quicker than I expected.

No soreness, which was surprising. I was still unable to get the 7mm plug in, or the 6.8 sound. I already sanded the 8mm plug down to 7mm, I guess I'll sand it down to 6.7mm and see if I can get it in.

It occurred to me that sanding flats on the side might be easier - the French scale was designed for non-round holes - but measuring the circumference of a non-round plug looks like more hassle than it would be worth.

[Pumping Now]

Sharpies.. Lotta sizes.
Take pen apart, drill small end out...
search '3d print' . No printer? Use a printing service.

Sharpie & silicone tubing

3d print size & length you want

[AndyJ]

That's right, brag, see if I care! <grin>

I managed to sand down a couple of the ball-end plugs to 6.5mm and 6.8mm. The 6.5mm one fell out within a few hours, but I was able to get the 6.8mm one in. That pulled out very easily late last night, so I tried the 7mm multi-bump plug. It went in without any great drama, and seems to be stuck in there pretty good. Of course, so did the 6mm one when I was using it. I'm giving a tug on it each time I pee to make sure it doesn't fall into the toilet unexpectedly.

I'm pretty happy; 7mm might not sound like much, but when you're starting at less than 6mm, every fraction of a millimeter is a big step!

This time I've been keeping at it instead of giving it a day or two of rest, and it's stretching right along. I didn't expect to make progress this fast. I have a couple of 8mm plugs on the way that I can sand down to until they will go in.

My eBay "purchased" history looks like I'm supplying a kink shop, but I'm still not up to the co-pay for a urology consult...

With your printer you can print whatever size you want, but if anyone ever wants to sand down a steel plug, if you push it over a piece of stiff wire you can hold it up to a belt or disc sander and let it spin on the wire, controlling the RPM with a fingertip. It gets it nice and round without flats and without sanding or scorching your fingertips.

One thing I noticed with the hollow plug is that I leave urine spots in my underwear. Maybe the sphincter up at the bladder doesn't close real fast, or urine is getting caught alongside the plug in the urethra and seeping out. I found some push-in silicone plugs on eBay in .5mm steps, I ordered 3, 3.5, 4, and 4.5mm since they were cheap. I don't know how well they'll stay in, considering how rubbing up against my underwear pulls bumpy silicone sounds out fairly quickly, but I can sand the front of the steel plug flat so the cloth doesn't have as much to grab hold of. I give the plugs about 1 chance out of 3 for working, but for a couple of bucks for a 10-pack, I figured they were worth a try.

[Pumping Now]

My experience.. deeper than 6" is more chance of infection.
I enjoy silicone tubing - it flexes, cut to length, can pump with it in, cheap, put a kink in the end to stop dribbles, pee straight after pumping, lots of sizes, stays in...
After cutting to length, I taper the cut edges.
I slip a rod inside the tubing for stiffness during insertion.

[AndyJ]

I'm interested. But why doesn't it slide out? The bumpy silicone sounds will work their way out if I'm just laying still in bed!

[AndyJ]

The 7mm bumpy plug I mentioned earlier has a slightly larger hole than the 6mm plug. And sometimes when I pee, it buzzes like someone put a vibrator on it. Not every time, and sometimes only once or twice while urinating, but if I have a very full bladder, most of the time.

Some kind of "hydrodynamic turbulence", maybe?

It was... startling the first time. The next step up probably won't do that. I think I'll miss it.

[AndyJ]

My order from Tether Products came in today. Very nicely made. My wife contributed a nice plastic box to keep all the bits together. The flange on the spouts is 8.5mm, so I still have to stretch before I can get one in, but I was able to make use of the "sizing sound" immediately.

The thing is rather intimidating; it looks like a tent spike! I have the "small" one, 20 to 30 Fr. It is shiny-smooth, but it didn't want to go in with Surgilube. I'm not real impressed with Surgilube, frankly... I wiped it off and used a few drops of Astro-Glide and it fell in under its own weight, which was rather startling. It stopped at the step between 23 and 24Fr, so I'm a 23, 7.67mm now. That's faster progress than I expected. The 8mm plugs won't be here until next week; I'll keep wearing the 7mm one as a "retainer" (unless I lose it!). Now I can just sand one of the 8mms to 7.7 instead of having to experiment. I was planning on 7.2 or 7.3 for the next step; that would have been a waste of a plug.

The 7mm plug is loose enough now that it urine flows around the outside when I pee, making a mess. I've started taking it out to pee, then cleaning and reinserting. Since the meatus stays stretched out of shape for that brief period, I'm back to peeing with the tube until the new plugs arrive.

Like I mentioned earlier, I started using a plug because I have both a meatal stricture and another problem that will require corrective surgery. After all the weird wore off, I found I *like* wearing a plug. I don't see any reason to stop after I get stretched and sliced, even if I can pee straight afterward.

[AndyJ]

I schmoozed some lathe time and made an 8mm plug this morning. Well, 7.75mm, I had a little measuring oopsie. The necked section is 6.4mm and it has a 4.5mm hole through it. Looks like a car tunnel compared to the 3mm holes in the little plugs.

I stretched out the hole to 8mm with the Tether Products stretcher/gauge and the new plug pushed right in. I made the neck short so it doesn't slide in and out as it rubs against my underwear, it's a lot more comfortable than the long-necked plugs.

The only thing I had on hand was some 3/8" aluminum rod. I expect I'll have corrosion problems, so I'll pull it out and check it every day or two. It only has to last until the steel plugs get here. Other than the stretching sensation I don't even know the plug is there; I sort of like the weight of steel now.

[AndyJ]

Well, that lasted less than 12 hours and I blew it out into the toilet while urinating.

Out of curiosity I tried the French gauge again, and now it goes in easily to 24Fr and a bit snugly to 25Fr., 8.33mm. All that 8mm hardware I ordered is superfluous now...

I'm going to try to get some more lathe time tomorrow and make an 8.33mm plug and an 8.67mm 26Fr. plug. I'm so close to being able to put the Tetherspout in I can smell it... the flared end is 26Fr.

I'm guessing my meatus was normal-sized until I got the stricture, and it's just opening back up to what it originally was. Still, I didn't expect it to happen so fast. Not that I'm complaining.

edit: corrected Fr. size

[bucket]

Let us know how you go with the Tetherspout pls. I have some but I ordered the steel retainers (for estim, 32fr) back when I could do 12-13mm sounds and now I can't rotate the retainer, it's too big for the cavity. I can fit a 11mm plug now no problem but bigger than that seems to be a no go. Maybe some past scarring is keeping it tight.

B

[AndyJ]

You can get a 32Fr. retainer in, but your fossa is small in diameter (or maybe pointy at the end?) and you can't get the retainer turned so the hole lines up with the urethra?

The nitrile retainers are only seven or eight dollars plus shipping, you could order a couple of smaller sets, maybe a 30 and a 28, or even a 26. Or you could just take a file, sandpaper, or a Dremel tool and reduce the diameter of one of the retainers you have until it will turn. It's not like you're getting any use out of it as it is... if you keep it round, you can measure the diameter when it finally gets to where it will turn, and then you'd know the French size if you ever need a replacement.

Huh. I've read about strictures forming anywhere from the bladder to the urethral opening, but I don't recall ever seeing anything about a stricture in the fossa navicularis. Why should that one spot be exempt? Can you feel anything unusual when you squeeze around on it? It might be easier to tell if you have a smooth sound (or pen, or something) inserted so you could feel any ridges that shouldn't be there.

[bucket]

Yes, I can get it in but can't rotate the retainer to face the right way to pull the spout through. I've tried the forceps method and the "reversed extra spout" method but no-go. My slit was torn a little bit at the bottom (1-1.5mm or so) in earlier sounding adventures so that might explain how it can get in. The steel retainers are little odd shaped things and I might be able to file them down but given where they're going I'm reluctant to create invisible micro edges that could tear.

The stricture may be related to an old PA I took out. I used to be uncut and the foreskin would push the PA forward and it hurt and took ages to heal, I got keloids as a result which have since cleared up outside but who knows inside.

I also considered buying smaller ones but the OS mail to AU would be terrible right now given the quarantining restrictions and reduced air transport for parcels. Thanks for the ideas anyhoo.

I also seem to have kidnapped the OP's thread with my life story so apologies to AndyJ, I'll shut up now.
B

[AndyJ]

> PA ... keloids

That sounds like it, then.

Okay, if you don't want to modify your steel retainers, why not make your own out of plastic? Someone here did that a while back. TP says he has some polycarbonate retainers in the queue, that's available in hardware stores as Lexan sheet, sold for plastic window glazing. Looks like it's the same brand name in Australia. You can drill a hole, cut the piece out, and then shape it with a file and sandpaper. Wave it through a flame to remove the fuzzies. Yeah, it will take a few hours, but it's just trivial futzing around, not precision work.

When I was sanding the oversize sounds and made that aluminum one, I couldn't get the shiny surface finish the commercial products have. Looks like Australian sandpaper grits are different than the USA; I used the stuff that auto body shops use to remove imperfections just a little too much for the buffer to handle; 500 grit here. I figured if I couldn't feel anything dragging when rubbing the plugs against the inside of my cheek, they ought to be smooth enough for my urethra.

What I'm thinking is, if you have a PA scar in the fossa, you might need a retainer that has a bite taken out of the rim, so it can straddle the scar, or even just make the retainer a "D" shape.

And... the spout has a 6mm diameter with an 8.5mm lip; you might be able to start with a 6mm nylon or stainless steel washer and reduce the diameter.

TP's retainers have a sort of dome shape; I'm pretty sure that's to spread the load and make the spouts more comfortable when under tension. From the medical drawings, the fossa is rounded at the ends. Anyway, if you can get a homemade retainer to turn and fit properly, you can use that as a pattern to modify the bought one.

If there's a wad of scarring or some lumpy tissue in there, you might be out of luck... but if you insert a smooth sound you could be able to feel that with your fingers.

I was trying to figure a way to make a cast of the navicular fossa. There are several materials would should be safe to use there, but unfortunately I can't figure out a way to get the casts out that doesn't involve surgery...


> I also seem to have kidnapped the OP's thread with my life story so apologies to AndyJ, I'll shut up now.

I have it on good authority that he's OK with thread drift...

[AndyJ]

In my latest installment of "way too much information", the 7.75mm plug won't stay in, and when it's out, the stricture shrinks right on down, to the point where I have to work to get the 6mm end of the gauge in, and it takes fifteen or twenty minutes of work to stretch it back up to 23 or 24Fr. Distinctly uncomfortable, too. I got it to 25 once, but it hasn't wanted to go that far since. And it sure doesn't want to *stay* at 23 or 24Fr., at least not without being held there for longer than I can keep the plug in. And it's plenty sore; it was fine with the initial stretching with the gauge, but it's not real happy with the re-stretching sessions. It'll have to deal with it...

After a couple of hours I get used to it and I don't even feel the pressure from the plug any more. And a few more hours, I don't feel it because I didn't even feel it slide out into my underwear. [sigh]

The tracking pages say a bunch of the stuff I ordered should be in early next week, most of it is 8mm, from when I expected to have to sand them down to intermediate sizes between 7 and 8mm. I ordered one 9mm plug on a whim; I can sand that one down to 8.5-ish, but I'm hoping I might get some more lathe time to make one or two >8mm plugs. I'm not planning to go past 9mm; that ought to be enough clearance to get the tetherspout bits in and out without difficulty.

One nice thing, until the 7.75mm plug loosens up, I can pee like a laser beam. That was the whole point of starting this plug thing. And my wife has gone from wondering if I was nuts to being enthusiastic about the plugs now.